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Swords? Anyone?
post July 16th 2009 1:52 PM
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That is an amazing and priceless heirloom, Scotto. Sentimental value aside, I would speculate that it is probably worth a LOT. However, there is no price in the world that would come anywhere near matching its sentimental value to you. Not only to have an authentic Japanese Katana, but to have a real piece of history brought back by the hands of soldier who lived that history, is just amazing. Thanks for sharing that. Wow. thumb.gif


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post July 19th 2009 9:33 AM
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QUOTE (scotto @ July 16th 2009 4:45 AM) *
My uncle Bill fought on Iwo Jima and was assigned a flame thrower. He seen a lot of terrible things
there that a profound effect on his life, alcoholism mostly. I have the katana that he picked up and brought home after the battle…





Most Japanese swords that officers carried in WWII were cheep mass produced katana’s
but some were handmade family swords. You can usually tell by the temper line. The mass produced stamped
out with no temper line. This one showed a temper line so I knew it was a handmade sword.


Handmade swords have an engraving on the tang with the sword makers name and date so I removed the
handle and there it was…

I had this translated and it’s from the Sho-Wa period and made in 1944,,, not a great year for Japan but
when I hold it in my hand and knowing where it had come from,,, well,, it’s like holding a piece of history..

RIP Uncle Bill.


Thank you for sharing this Scotto, very nice Katana and the story just completes it.


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post October 6th 2009 1:48 PM
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bein in Okinawa currently I been huntin a traditional maker without much luck, also dunno about the exportation rules, gotta look those up soon too, but the "coffee table" swords are everywhere ya turn here


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post October 14th 2009 8:37 AM
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QUOTE
Are you looking for one that is actually able to cut and/or train with? One of the best (non-Japanese made) Katanas that I know of are made by Bugei. They are pretty high dollar, but they are exceptional blades.


I have some friends who are professional, expert and master swordsmiths. Not a one of them will call Bugei swords the real deal, but many of them seam to think that Bugei are the best of the production swords out there. Bugei are basically the top of the line Paul Chen swords.

QUOTE
Thats the only type of sword I'd ever want. The real deal! Folded steel goodness. Drooling just looking at those pictures.


Hoooold your horses there friend. If we are talking about originality and materials Bugei ARE NOT the real deal. They are made out of a European metal that has reasonable hardness and toughness. They MIGHT be folded, but if so, it's only for a boost in hardness. Their metal is more like a higher end version of corbon Damascus (what sword smiths call: "Damascus in a can") then the real metal that real Japanese swords are made of. The Japanese metallurgy is also obsolete. It is only practiced to keep up the tradition and satisfy collectors. Wootz (True Damascus) and S-7 are considerably better metals for sword making, and S-7 is readily available, though hard to work with and requires high-tech heat treating. Wootz is also prettier when treated to expose it's pattern, but wootz Katanas cost thousands of dollars each.
A REAL sword has to be able to cut effectively AND take a beating. Most swords that are being sold as the real thing are made to not break when they experience shock and the rest is all cutting power, almost always at the expense of durability. The same is true with Bugei.

Also, be careful of the phrase: "Hand Made". Many swords sold as hand made are in fact run (by hand) through set processes and only a little better then normal quality control is the extent of the swords being custom.

That all said, I HAVE heard good things about Bugei from people in the know, particularly their Dragonfly Katana. Like I said, without getting in to too much detail, they are basically top of the line Paul Chen swords. About as good as you are going to get for "order on demand."

QUOTE
I have started researching sword/knife making and my wife 'MGS' DVR's any show on tv that has to do with oriental swords/sword making. Traditional is really hard and takes a long time! Alot of 'modern' katanas are homoginous steal layered or not. the good ones and traditional are made from two different types. the outside layered, high carbon, very strong and sharp. The inner 'core' low carbon, 'soft' steel. the outer is shaped into a "V" and the inner core is inserted then both are heated and forge welded to shape then several steps are taken to finish to a level where it is tempered then polished.
There are very few 'Sword Masters" around these days.


I might be able to help you. I myself am in the process of building an Uchigatana. For those of you who don't know what that is, the Katana is only one of a whole series of swords. The most common are the Katana (standard length) Uchigatana (shorter, faster, more maneuverable), Tachi (longer "reach out, touch me" sword) and the shirasaya (plain, guardless sword that looks like a long banana when sheethed)

These 3 swords ARE NOT the 3 swords that are usually found in Japanese sword display sets. Those 3 are USUALLY a Katana (largest), Wakazashi (medium) and Tanto (smallest)

Actually, it's fairly common to find Uchigatanas as the largest of the 3 swords in 3 sword sets of display swords, but most people wouldn't know the difference. The Uchigatana and Katana, to the untrained eyes, are pretty much the same (only different by 2-4 inches of blade length.

The Uchigatana was very popular among the Samurai because they could be drawn quickly, used single or double handed, and more mobile overall. You might say that the Uchigatana, in many ways, compared to the Katana the way the M-4 Carbine compares to the M-16.

In the media, the most well known example of Uchigatana usage I know of comes from the Playstation 3 video game: "Gengi: Days of the Blade", where the main character uses Uchigatanas (or Katanas the way Uchigatanas were used).

I went with an Uchigatana because, when I was in to martial arts a decade ago, my sword of choice was the Chinese Dao, but I still liked the Katana for it's defense-offense balance and techniques that revolved around actually making contact with your opponents sword with yours (most swords are not meant for that) and the Uchigatana seams to be the idea sword to achieve the best of both worlds. It's competitor was the German Messer sword. I originally started looking at just a simple Katana with a slightly shorter edge, and my friend eventually turned me on to the Uchigatana, which is consistent with the path I was already headed down.

I am using S-7 steel. The RC hardnes is slightly less then homoginous, but it's wear resistance and ability to take a beating far surpasses even genuine Samurai swords. As I said, it was a great idea for the time, but obsolete today. I already had it heat treated and am in the final stages of construction. It is like a rock with gummy-like resistance to grinding but it's flexibility reminds me of an ugly stick. There's allot of supposedly cool new and fancy stuff coming out all the time, but ask around and you'll find that the most esteemed sword smiths tent to stick to S-7 due to it's tried and tested durability.

While it's a very bad idea to try heat treating it yourself, http://www.metalscience.com will heat treat it for around $100, though you better know what you're doing before you send it in as it can crack and split if prepared improperly. Their therma cycle is everything they say it is from my experience. I have handled Japanese swords from various eras (from the 1400s to the 1940s) and a variety of different qualities, including a couple real Samurai Swords (you'll know THEM when you see them) and so far, I have yet to see a historical Japanese sword that I have anywhere near the confidence in that I already have in the S-7 sword I am building. I can also get you in contact with some serious and even living legend sword smiths if you are serious about this.

I'll start a separate topic if you guys want to know more about this.

QUOTE
Most Japanese swords that officers carried in WWII were cheep mass produced katana’s
but some were handmade family swords. You can usually tell by the temper line. The mass produced stamped
out with no temper line. This one showed a temper line so I knew it was a handmade sword.


I have handled family swords and WW II swords in my hands at the same time. You'll know family swords when you see them. They are ALLOT higher quality then the WW II swords, not to mention having distinctly different furniture.

Don't cut yourself short though. The WW II era swords may have been lower quality, but they were built to endure extreme combat conditions, kill men and make it in one piece, and they did. The sword you have is good enough that men were willing to trust their lives with it.

BTW.

Your WWII sword LOOKS like an Uchigatana.

QUOTE
bein in Okinawa currently I been huntin a traditional maker without much luck, also dunno about the exportation rules, gotta look those up soon too, but the "coffee table" swords are everywhere ya turn here


Don't expect much luck with a traditional maker, and be ready to spend over $60,000 on the sword if you are lucky enough to find one. The Japanese government has limited how many swords traditional smiths can make in a year (for quality control purposes) and the size of the Traditional industry is about the same as the "Samurai only" smithing industry was back in the Samurai days, which is VERY SMALL considering the size of the market. In fact, it may be impossible to order a traditional sword from a living master smith. If you order one, you'll probably have to wait as much as 20-30 years and it be made by his apprentice who replaces him when he retires. It's much easier to get your hands on a real sword that was carried by real Samurai then it is to get one that hasn't been made yet. If you have $20,000 or more to burn, you can have a real Samurai sword in your hands in a month:

http://www.samuraisword.com

This post has been edited by brigadier: October 14th 2009 9:00 AM

Links and References to Other Pages:

http://www.metalscience.com
http://www.samuraisword.com


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post October 14th 2009 9:01 AM
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Never really into swords, however they are pretty neat.

I wanna get a sword I guess it is.. something to clear brush on hikes in the mountains


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post October 14th 2009 10:45 AM
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Very interesting, Brigadier.


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post January 14th 2010 5:27 AM
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You know you only have to fold a piece of metal sixteen times to get over 65,000 layers in it.


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post January 14th 2010 5:34 AM
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QUOTE (jchtrh @ July 19th 2009 9:33 AM) *
Thank you for sharing this Scotto, very nice Katana and the story just completes it.



From prices i have seen $25,00-$50,00-maybe as high as $120,000 depending on whom made the sword


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