I notice that Colt seems to be making 1911-A1's again-is the DE in the repitoire of these or is it still out of production? Really would like to add one on to the bunch of Tens I have-

Yes, Colt is making the DE again, but it has the same reputation for marginal accuracy and less-than-polished internals that the preponderance of the Colt lineup has. While it may shoot, and be a decent "building" platform, it certainly isn't an "out of the box" performer.

Scott

If I recall the one I got in '90required a trip to the 'smith-never could get used to the trigger on it

Its a damned sad state of affairs when you spend $900.00+ dollars on a pistol, only to dump another $400.00 dollars in it to get the performance out of a Series 80 unit that you can get from a $1000.00 - $1100.00 Dan Wesson Razorback right out of the box! (And the Razorback is a Series 70 pistol to boot)! Because the Series 70 has a smoother trigger from the outset, it would have performed better out of the box if Colt had built it that way!

Dan Wesson takes a LOT more pride intheir workmanship than Colt has for over 45 years. Colt, on the other hand, but charges an awfully high price for their base Series 80 10mm Auto from the very beginning! Silly, isn't it?

Scott

This post has been edited by gunfan: August 17th 2009 4:52 AM

Scott-I am big into the DW's(refuse to call them CZ's) -when DW was by itself and making the 10 on the 1911-A1 platform I had the opportunity to actually speak with the Prez of DW as the Guns were being manufactured-have an experimental 10mm they made which is two tone-a razorback-and a commander(not the Bobtail-)these are the best 10's I have fired on the 1911-A1 platform-didn't have to do a thing to any of them except pull them out of the box and shoot -these were reasonably priced when I purchased them-now I see that CZ has really jacked the price up on them-these came with all of the bells and whistles and were a pleasure to fire. An excellent choice and more reasonable than the Kimber

Scott,

I have to ask.............do you own a new production Delta Elite or are you just relating what you've read elsewhere? My personal experience with a recently-built Colt pistol was a very positive one. I purchased a Colt XSE Lightweight Commander .38 Super about 4-5 years ago now and it was 100% reliable "right out of the box." Sure, I've since then converted it to 9x23 Winchester, changed the sights, and replaced a number of small parts (including the thumb and grip safeties) with ones from Wilson Combat, but all this work was by choice and none of it was necessary.

I know you greatly admire the Dan Wesson line, but EVERY line has its admirers and detractors. The fact is, there are literally hundreds (1000s?) of satisfied Colt owners who would vehemently argue against your assertions regarding current production Colt pistols. If you post your comments on coltforums.com, I don't think your anti-Colt posts would receive the uncontested acceptance they've received here and you might get "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.

This post has been edited by XTrooper: August 17th 2009 11:04 AM

I am relating what has been expressed on this forum and a few others. Even the "gunzines" haven't given the 2009 Delta Elite rave reviews. The problem with Colt, it what it HASN'T done.

I own a 2000-vintage 1991-A1. While it is "okay" it isn't up to the standards in comparison to what I see other manufacturers producing. This is why I'm willing to part with it. If it were as good as what Dan Wesson has to offer, I wouldn't dream of letting it slip from my fingers! I can't, in good concience, declare the Colt an excellent product. Tha Colt Delta Elite is a "good base gun" this would be a far more accurate (and fairer) statement, but no better than that.

That said, you CAN "make a silk purse from a sow's ear" but, IMHO, it reqires an excessive amount of the "coin of the realm". I simply cannot see paying an extra $300.00 to $400.00 for the privilege of doing so.

Scott

I try not to comment on and especially not criticize things I have no personal experience with, but that's just me. The thing is, no manufacturer is trouble-free, including Dan Wesson, and you don't have to search very far to read complaints about any of them. Beating up on a single manufacturer seems unreasonable.

The Shadow posted this in the 10mm Talk Lounge:

Colt posts recall on 2007 pistols.

Check the link for info! http://www.coltsmfg.com/recall.aspx
Links and References to Other Pages:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/recall.aspx

This speaks for itself.

Is this a problem of "selective" quality issues with Colt pistols? My brother has a Colt Commander that he bought in the mid-70's, during his time aboard the Amphibious Boat Units USN. This is a top-flite piece, he recently upgraded to a Bar-Sto barrel and a Wilson bushing in his Colt Gold Match, another show-stopping "needle-threader". So basically, what your saying is, that was Colt then, this Colt is now! My sibling also likes Kimbers, so do I. But, I want a Dan Wesson and another Smith & Wesson 610 to add to my battery.

I've been around long enough to have seen recalls from just about every major firearms manufacturer. In just the recent past, there have been recalls by Ruger, SIG, Smith & Wesson, and now Colt. They are what they are and don't prove anything about overall quality, one way or the other. If, God forbid, Dan Wesson has to have a recall in the future, will that mean their weapons are junk? Of course not.

While Colt may not be "junk", they aren't "keeping up with the times" either! For the price that you are paying for the Colt name, it would seem that you would be entitiled to a pistol with the modern accoutrements. There are ways that they could be "beating the competition". All this would require is a simple chnge of barrel/bushing arrangements and minor peripherals. If this isn't done, Colt will eventually go the way of the Essex.

Scott

Scott,

You're forgetting that private sales are a small part of Colt's overall market. With their extensive military and law enforcement contracts, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Regarding "modern accouterments," Colt offers models with as many or as few "niceties" as you prefer. The 1991A1 was a base model pistol and that's what you got. No amount of buyer regret will change this fact.

This post has been edited by XTrooper: August 18th 2009 11:12 PM

I understand that Colt no longer has a major interest in the civilian market. Since this is the case, perhaps Colt should leave the civilian market. I hate to say this, but they won't be conspicuous by their absence.

Scott

Colt versus DW...

Xtrooper. Yes, Colt DOES have very good 1911's with all of the bells and whistles available for sale.

But I suggest you look at what you get for your dollar..

IMO Colt has realized that folks are willing to pay a premium to purchase an item with their trademark on it.

If you have a thousand dollars to spend, you can get higher level product from DW than you do from Colt. Or, put another way, to get the same level of product you get from DW, you would have to lay out more money to buy from Colt.

Now, do I blame them? No, if they figure they can get an extra profit from their name, more power to them. But there are a few of us who would rather shop quality than name.

I have two Delta Elites (both older models) which are good guns. I also have two DW's (one razorback and one bobtail) and they are EXCELLENT guns...

One of my local shops has a brand new Delta AND a brand new DW 10mm... I have handled both... They retail within $150 of each other.... but even right out of the box, the Delta would need a hundred bucks worth of 'accessories' to match the DW... and the DW's trigger is better to boot meaning the Delta would have to go to a smith to get trigger work...

All in all, the brand new items in the shop still show that DW is a better deal than the Delta Elite... Unless of course what one REALLY wants is the Colt name.

"A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet" - William Shakespeare. The truth is, Colt is a good "base" gun. There is no doubt about it. I still can't help but wonder why anyone would insist on paying premium price to have the name COLT rollmarked on the slide, effectively increasing the price of a "Plain Jane" 1911-A1 by a healthy $400.00! There isn't a single bit of logic, outside of "brand loyalty", that would dictate such a purchase.

In the immortal words of Desi Arnaz when playing the character "Ricky Ricardo"... "'splain it to me, Lucy"!

Scott

I think Colt screwed up when they chose to bring back the Delta Elite instead of the Delta Gold Cup. The DGC was just a much better pistol in my opinion.

I agree. It would have been much better than the "standard" arrangment, or even the "bull" barrel. I'll be blunt, Colt could have done a great deal to make the Colt Delta Elite much better. Sadly, they didn't do it.

Scott

He's just a hater with no hands-on experience...

My new production DE is spectacular, and will flat shoot the lights out.

I have no idea what this $300-$400 hang up he has since he hasn't even handled one, much less shot or owned one.

I had a Dan Wesson and didn't like the odd slide geometry. It came straight from the factory with a cracked "Match Grade" barrel bushing. I sold that "Value" POS as soon as DW sent it back to me...

I own my fair share of custom and semi-custom 1911's from YO-BO, Miller and Nighthawk, and my box stock DE (other than the custom Alumagrips) will shoot every bit as well as any of them...and that ain't too shabby...













This post has been edited by varoadking: September 4th 2009 11:16 PM

"He's just a hater with no hands-on experience..,

My new production DE is spectacular, and will flat shoot the lights out.

I have no idea what this $300-$400 hang up he has since he hasn't even handled one, much less shot or owned one".

Is that right? How well do you know me? It must be the lawyer in you. It is easy to deride something you don't understand, but this is not the case. Thanks for the slanderous memories. (we MUST do it again sometime)! By this same token, you must hate all the DW products that you have held, because you've owned ONE with which you have had trouble. BTW, I see that you have already "customized" nearly every pistol that you have. Does that mean that they were inadequate as manufactured, or were you just lucky when you got the one "well built" Delta Elite?

I have shot several Colt products and have taken apart a few DE pistols (early models). Every one of them had been altered (outside of the infamous "bridge" of metal over the slide stop) to enhance their accuracy. I am glad that you have a good one. There is no denying an excellent pistol (if you have it).

I simply came to the realization that other manufacturers could, IMHO, consistantly produce a better pistol for the money. I owe no allegiance to ANY manufacturer that puts out a substandard product.

Good luck to you!

This post has been edited by gunfan: September 5th 2009 12:12 AM