I'm researching and finding different options.

I'm between building a dedicated .22 AR
or just building or buying a standard .225/5.56 AR.

My reason for not build a dedicated .22 is because I already have a .22 rifle.
If I'm going to do an AR I might as well make it worth it right?
my only problem with this is..the cost of AMMO!
I can/could get 500 rounds of federal .22 ammo for $15+/-

obviously .223/5.56 is no where near that.
And really I only plan on taking this to the outdoor/indoor range, and for controlling the local wildlife population.
Which I use my .22 for anyways... It's quiet!

So, say I were looking to do a .223/5.56.

Is there a prebuilt rifle that I could just walk into Gander mtn or local gun shop and ask for?
A certain brand or model?
This is my first AR, I would love to learn on it. But I doubt I'll pull funds together to buy/build another AR.
So I need a readily expandable system, mostly because I have to tinker. And I would like to use some of the parts I have on my current Nordic stock system for my .22 (I.E. hand guard, buttstock)

I know I want a flat top.
I know I want it as short as possible w/o applying for an SBR stamp.
I would have no need to shoot beyond 100yds.
I want a CQC styled rifle.
I also would love for ammo prices to go down..geeze.

EDIT: price range.

Close to $700-800.

I would like a good base system. But I don't want to pay for a lot of "pre upgraded" parts.
I want to do that myself!

This post has been edited by Moo-X3: November 4th 2009 4:01 AM

Personally, Id go with a 5.56 for my first AR.

Good brands to look for are Stag, DPMS (I wouldnt get one unless the barrel was chromed. DPMS makes then non-chrome lined, so if you want chrome, make sue you find out first.), Charles Daly, and Rock River Arms.

Those are the one I can think of off hand that would be readily available in a gun store.

okay, as i understand 5.56..
I can also shoot a .223 in this, w/o modification?
and that there's a difference between chrome and chromoly? (spelling?)

This post has been edited by Moo-X3: November 4th 2009 3:53 AM

My recommendation is a Charles Daly D-M4 or D-M4LE. That is with no idea of a budget.



TS

Yep. Most standard ARs are chambered in 5.56, so you should be good there. The markings will be on the barrel if you arent sure.

Yes, on almost all ARs. DPMS bull barrel rifles (not needed close up) are .223 Remington only.




TS

oh right, budget!

if I'm doing a very basic platform..
I don't know what's realistic.
I would prefer to keep it under $1000
Ideally, I would love to keep it around $700.
But I haven't done much price shopping.

I need something basic to learn on. I figure a prebuilt system would be best for me.
then I can learn the ins and outs. And if the system is readily expandable that would be perfect. ( it is an AR after all. I should be able to change just about anything, right?)

okay, awesome. How about a certain model?

and great note on the Bull barrels. That's exactly what I don't want.
The lighter the better.

had one on my ruger 10/22. Too much weight without enough gain.
wasn't worth it to me.

This post has been edited by Moo-X3: November 4th 2009 3:59 AM

Personally I would suggest a Stag Model 2.

They can be had for around $850-950 in stores. I have a Model 1, which is the same as the Model 2 except for the rear sight, and I have not had a gun related failure in over 2500 rounds.

that model looks good.
Seems to fit my criteria well.

This isn't something that I plan to go out and buy tomorrow.
I want to do my research and make sure I get the best for my money. Makes sense right?
but I just don't want it to come pre"blinged" out.
That's takes out the fun for me.

how about chrome-moly
What's the difference and why does it even matter?

Charles Daly would be at the high end of your budget. Stag and Smith & Wesson are good.




TS

Chrome moly is the type of steel used to make most barrels. Chrome lining can be found in 4140 Chrome moly steel barrels and 4150 Chrome moly Vanadium barrels. 4150 CMV will withstand more heat than a 4140 but most users will never need that extra. Chrome lined means just that that the barrel has a chrome linining. Chrome is harder and more resistant to corrosion than either 4140 or 4150 steel and will extend the barrel life. For a gun for inside 100 yards I would definitely get a chrome lined barrel.



TS

Chrome moly is NOT chrome plated.

Chrome lined barrels are more durable, and can take being neglected for longer.

Not that we would ever forget to clean out rifle after every time we shoot. lol

And you dont need to get them all blinged out. For your first one, IMO, its better to get a standard one, do research, and add what you like.

I started with this.



And I currently have this. Im ALMOST done. lol

Stag Model 3; S&W M&P OR; DPMS 5.56 NATO Oracle or Sportical with chrome lined option.

All are inexpensive. All are 5.56 NATO. The first two are always chrome lined and the DPMS can have it as an option. All come with zero sighting arrangements so you can pick your poison. All reliably go bang every time.



But.....

You should take some time and hunt a bunch of your local gun stores. You just never know who has what in stock and how they intend to price it. There are at least a half dozen good brands in the mid range grade and each one has a half dozen models worth looking at. Every dealer is negotiating his own pricing and delivery. Pricing can be all over the map. So it's important to learn the local offerings. I can think of a bunch of other brands and models I could recommend if the store was making a good offer on them.

Take some time this weekend and go visit as many shops as you can on Saturday and Sunday. Take notes on models and pricing. Get the shop phone numbers too since when you bring the info back here we will cull your list a bit and send you back for some more info on better sounding offers.

Most true manufacturers (though not all assemblers) put out a quality AR these days. All should give you good product and warranty support. So it becomes more about finding the best deal out there. Just walk in each store and ask the guy to show you all of his under $900 AR's he's got in stock. Take notes about pricing and features. If the guy gets all cagey then tell him an honest broker doesn't fear an informed and competitive shopper. If that doesn't wake him up then just walk. Who would want to buy from that type and then try to deal with them if there was an issue later?

Also ignore their sales hype. They are in the business of selling guns. No way they will tell you most mid grade brands are all about the same. They will puff up their product and talk down what they don't have or make less profit on. Furthermore a lot of them don't know squat compared to the collective knowledge you can get here. Just ask about the basic component features and the pricing. Let the rest of the noise wash over you. Don't have to be rude about cutting off their pitch since you might want to make a deal with them later and bargain a bit. Let them enjoy their tall tales.


Come back with that info and we can steer you to the best local deal.

thanks guys.
I plan on looking around a bit tonight and tomorrow.
i know the one shop that is closest may have them, but I expect their selection and attitudes to suck.
I don't know what the deal is but they are real jerks to me. All except the one older guy who is super awesome. Who knows?
Being in a sales job as well (sprint/nextel) I know how their sales work and they've tried it on me before.
So I'm cautious of that particular store. But wow, they have awesome ammo prices.

other than that it will be the good ole gander mtn. And whatever other shop I can find around.


I think this is definitely the direction I want to go though.
Who needs another .22, right?

Thanks for your advice!

This post has been edited by Moo-X3: November 4th 2009 1:26 PM

You can find dmps sporticals for under $700 but they dont come with shell deflector or forward assist! I have seen them for $619 ! From what I have heard if you are not left handed the shell deflector is not nessasary ! Have not shot one with out it so dont know

I forgot about this deal
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?cat=161&

you might want to look into rock river arms, their carbine starts around 750 ish, What ever you decide to buy get it in 5.56, dont let a dealer tell you that 5.56 and 223 are the same because they are not ( it happens more than you might think). a side benifit is 5.56 can be bought alot cheaper than .223 I have a rock river flat top with a tact. carry handle and I love it.

went to the local shop today.
he had the Stag that everyone has referred to, but he wanted $899 for it.
No thanks.
Seemed a bit high for a base model.
So over the weekend ill be going to gander mtn.

One thing bob72 mentioned. About being lefty, which I am.

I need the shell deflector.
But I also noticed the mag release on the particular lower for the Stag was basically for a righty.
Which sucks.
I guess it's not a terribly big deal.
But the lower isn't something i would want to buy more than once.
is there something I could to do the lower to make it lefty, or atleast ambi?