All targets were shot @ 100 yards. 5 shot groups @ 65 degrees F, no wind.





Those 2 pics are of Hunting Shack 75 gr. 223-17N-T supposedly the more accurate of there 2 tactical loads.
The next 2 pics are of HS 556-17N-T a hotter supposedly less accurate round, both these rounds use the Hornady bullet.





The next is Hornady 75gr. HPBTM


The next 2 are Hunting Shacks 223-6. It uses the 69 gr. Sierra MK HPBTM bullet





The next is Black Hills 68 gr. Match ammo



The last is remington green and White Box 55 gr.




Can anyone tell me what is wrong?
I think this gun should shoot better than this. Jason @ JTAC has already told me he would do whatever it took to fix the accuracy but before I blame the BBL/upper i would like to rule out other possibilities.
It looks like the thing doesn't like most ammo, all military m855 stuff is 8 moa ( unacceptable). Some groups are good but have flyers, too many fliers. Any ideas?

Jim

Are you using iron sights?

If so, are you sure you are getting the same sight picture every time?

I'm not trying to be a smartass. It is just somethting I noticed several times with troops trying to zero a rifle.

Jay

Nope, I'm using a Leupold MKIV LRT 3.5X10 with T-milling reticle. I'm sure that its not me.

Jim

Don't know then... sorry Bubba.

Jay

With handloads using 26.5 grs of Varget and Serra 52gr HPBT bullets, I was getting 1"< groups out of my scoped AR15. 68 grain and up bullets usually don't do well under 100 yards, but they are better for longer ranges.

So you need to ask yourself what your intended range is. If it is under 100 yards then try a lighter grained bullet.

How are you cleaning your barrel? How many rounds do you have through it? My accuracy wasn't real great either till I got several hundred rounds through mine. Cleaning between every ten rounds for the first hundered and and then after 100 rounds or so. Now I shoot maybe 300-400 rounds between cleanings but haven't shot for groups in a long while. It may just need a good break in.

I believe he shot one and cleaned forthe first five or ten rounds. Then every three rounds and then every five up to a certain number. I don't know where he initially stopped or how many since then.


TS

Buckshot, excuse my ingnorance on your shooting experience or what exactly is going on here, but is this the result of a new rifle or new upper or the result of someone shooting an AR for the first time? Have you shot other ARs with better results?
I do think the groups should be better shooting an AR at 100yrds using a 3.5X10 Leupold.

is the barrell 16" or 20" ?

I can see a difference in placement of the groups using different ammo of different weights, but there are too many flyers there unless it was shooter error, a loose scope or unstable support or weather related.

Dust Devil & OD45, I have been shooting ARs and there variants since 1986. I was a Marine Rifle Expert, have shot in 3 gun matches, IPSC/USPSA, lots of other rifle/pistol formats and currently instruct rifle part time for the Texas Dept of Criminal Justice . I have fired untold thousands of rounds through these rifles. This BBL is 14.5 inches stainless 1in7 twist. I broke the rifle in by cleaning first, then firing one shot and cleaning for the first 5 rounds, then after every 3 shots, then after every 5 shots. I have fired over 200 rds through it so far. I use a bore guide and jags and brushes with triple twill patches and I don't spare the patches. The solvents I use are BreakFree CLP for powder fouling and then Sweets 7.62 solvent for copper fouling followed by complete removal of Sweets and a light coat of BreakFree The rifle has gotten better the more I shoot it and maybe continued break in is what it needs but the fliers concern me greatly along with the fact it will not even put all 5 62 grain bullets on an 81/2 X 11 sheet of paper. The rifle was fired from a stable bench using a GG&G bipod and my arms for support. When the rifle did this I switched to an open sight A2 and shot smaller groups.......
P.S. It should be added that I don't expect this rifle to be a one holer but I do expect it to shoot 1 MOA.

Oh Yeah, The scope is secured directly to the reciever with A.R.M.S QD Rings.

thanks,

Jim

This post has been edited by Buckshot_Jim: September 14th 2006 2:48 AM

Gotcha Buckshot. I never shot out of a 14.5" barrel and could say what the accuracy should be, but like you, the flyers would be a concern of mine also.

I also understand your concern of why some ammo works well while others don't.

I have a Ruger VLE .308 that is pretty accurate when shooting Federal Match ammo, but I also experience flyers when using Black Hills ammo which is supposed to be very good ammo used by so many professionals.

I don't think the 14.5" part has anything to do with it. My currently returning to installer CMMG M4A1 Socom barrel shot about like Jim's does. The original DPMS barrel was accurate as hell and it was 14.5" as well. I got one hole @ 50yards with an EOTech with the original DPMS barrel and T's 75gr Match, South African M193(battlepack), or Winchester WWB. Not every time, but close and I'm not half the shot that Jim is.

TS

Man. I have no idea what's going on there.

There's something odd with all of that. Hell - I'm a lousy shot and my AR is very much a CQB rig with 1:1 sights (Holosight) and a lightened 16" barrel and I can shoot at least that well with it. But a Marine expert with a long history of shooting these things should (imo) get much better. I've little doubt that these targets weren't the fault of the shooter.

Wierd.

did you ever figure this out jim? or get it shooting any better?

I sent it back to JTAC supply. Jason said he would do whatever it took to make it right. I believe the BBL is bad, nothing to do with Jason.
Anyway, i will get it back soon and repost pics .
Jim