Okay, this is a short little rant...

I know the word "boat" was some ancient wiseass' ackronym for Break Out Another Thousand, but jebus - marine engine manufacturers, and the aftermarkets, are completely insane and out of touch with reality in terms of prices and values.

For instance:

A new Mercury 75 horsepower 4-stroke outboard motor at the local marine dealer costs $7,640.00 not including installation. The same maker's 75hp "Optimax" motor (which IIRC is a 2 stroker) costs $7,330 not including installation. Now lets ponder this for one moment. A bare bones strippo Kia Rio 4 door compact sedan costs roughly in the ball park of $9000. In 5 years, that 75hp outboard motor will still be valued in the ballpark of $5,000, whereas in 5 years of average use, that kia will be down to about $3-4000 in good condition, with over 100,000 miles on the odom.

For 9000 you get a car, capable of hauling stuff, and people, with an engine and tires and everything needed go someplace. Or for $7600 you can get just an engine, with nothing attached to it except maybe the throttle/gear control box.

That kia will be more reliable, break less often, and cost a lot less to maintain or have it worked on than the Mercury boat motor. And yet that boat motor - with no boat attached even, will still be valued higher as time goes by - and in fifteen or twenty years when that Kia is sitting in a scrap yard, that goddamned Mercury motor will garner $1000-2000 if it cranks, and maybe $500 or $1000 if it doesn't.

Another example - local marine dealer has a number of used outboards of various vintage - but in particular, they have about 4 or 5 early to mid 1980's vintage Evinrude/Johnson outboards in the 70-80hp range. Sticker price on those units is $2300 to 2600, installation not included. These are IIRC between 1982 and 1985 model year 3 cylinder engines. $2600! My first car - an Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra V6, which was a decade newer, cost half that! That same Olds would only be worth about $600-800 today (not counting Cash for Clunkers).

Looking at Craigslist for a newer running outboard than what I have as the main power on my boat, I'm finding that early to mid 1970's vintage Mercury engines are demanging $500-1000 even for non runners or fixer-uppers! WTF?

And to make it even more maddening - you can get parts for just about ANY car ever made fairly easy. Even stuff that hasn't been made for fifty years. BUT - the outboard world is not hte same. My 1964 Evinrude V4 75hp is SOL when it comes to getting new electronic parts. They are listed as NLA by the manufacturer. They have not made these parts in over a decade! So that means proper replacements would have to come from marine salvage yards or other old motors - which are getting pretty sparse. The three biggest marine salvage yards in Oregon have all closed up shop in the last year. Prices on parts that are obtainable are ridiculously high. Most of those old parts will garner the same story from the dealers around here "Sorry, can't get those anymore."

Have had to resort to using automotive parts - which is a big no-no on certain items because of the lack of them being sealed and insulated as well as their marine counterparts - and my engine still won't crank.

So now I am saving my pennies, nickles, dimes, and quarters to save up for one of those 20 year old used and probably abused outboards at the dealer - and hoping that by the time I've got that kind of cash saved up, I will have found a steal-of-a-deal on a running motor on craigslist or other internet forum for less than it'll cost me.

The stupid part of it all is that it is sometimes cheaper to buy a whole boat/motor/trailer setup with running engine than it is to just buy the damn engine. It's maddening.

I swear, if it were not for the sentimental attachment - I would tow the whole damn boat/trailer/motor outfit I have now down to the dealer and try to trade her in for something that runs. But my dad built the boat with his own two hands 23 years ago and the boat itself is still in fine shape. The motor was 20+ years old when we got it, now it's 45 years old and it shows. But motors of the same vintage in running or not condition are still $500...

So while I'm saving my pennies up for a new main engine, I will be hunting for an inexpensive 10-12 foot car topper type boat that I can throw the 6 horse kicker I recently picked up (a 1974 Johnson 6hp that set me back over $400) on and get my old man out fishing sometime this season. Haven't been fishing with him in over a decade, not since mom had her heart attack. I'd hoped to get him out again on the boat he built, but doesn't look like that's happeneing this year unless I hit the jackpot or someone just gives me a new engine for it.

Really - marine engine makers have all power boat owners over a damn barrel, and they never use lube. I seriously don't understand why these engines are so damn expensive, and why they seem to hold their value even after 10, 15, or 20+ years. It's almost enough to make a guy want to go back to oars or paddles...

very well put.....

I agree, outboards run a hefty amount especially when you add the frieght it cost to get them out here in Rural Alaska. I have a 2-Stroke Johnson 90 Commercial that my FIL gave me when...only had it for 2 years prior. He ended up getting a 4-Stroke Suzuki 150, we do the installs ourselves...have no choice really.

There are a bunch of old motors here that make it to the scrap yard, life on an outboard is hard here.

I've always had a thing for specing out my dream boats (a whole fleet, since a boat is generally designed for one or two types of water/useage, and isn't always great at others)

For stuff you'd face in Alaska on the rivers where running a powerboat is allowed, I think I'd go with something like an 18 foot Woolridge or Thunderjet with an inboard jet, powered by something like the 460 Ford or Chevy's 454 - something with a lot of oomph. Course that wouldn't go over so well on the Kenai, so for that river it'd be something like a 16 or 18 foot flat bottom Woolridge with a 4-stroke 50 hp tiller steer jet outboard, and something like a 10 or 15hp 4-stroke kicker.

For the inlets/close in saltwater stuff - I liked the boat that Dad & I rode in on a halibut trip out of Nanilchik (sp?) - 28 foot welded aluminum beast with a heated cabin complete with head, big rear deck. That puppy was powered by a pair of 350hp Evinrude outboards designed for saltwater use. It got up and ran like a raped ape too...wouldn't think that a 28 footer would plane too well, but this bastid did! Our skipper was a crazy bastid himself, and enjoyed scaring hte piss out of the wimmen folk aboard by going through the waves instead of riding over them That was fun.

My ideal Oregon/Washington river/bay boat is a 24 foot Willie Predator with a forward helm instead of the typical tiller control, powered by something like a Merc 250hp outboard jet with a 15hp kicker. They're big boats - 102" beam, with a deck that is almost 6 feet wide inside. LOTS of dance floor with that boat. Enough capacity to haul four or five of your closest buddies, or enough gear to stay out from home for a month... couple that with the 5* bottom and the tunnel that allows the jet to be mounted a bit higher, and you can run some seriously skinny water if you've got the stones to do it.



The thing that keeps one grounded in these thoughts - aside from the fact that these lovely river sleds are 30-50k themselves, is the fact that those damn outboards can easily add another 10-15K to the pricetag! The inboards models that use a standard truck engine are cheaper, easier to obtain most parts for, and any half good auto mechanic can keep your boat's power plant serviced and operating, and for about $50-70 an hour labor rate, instead of the 100+ that the marine mechanics charge.

Having to have one of those heavy beasts shipped up to Alaska would suck for sure. Especially if it didn't work right once it got there and either had to be shipped back, or you had to wait for parts...

Out here, we run into all types of water systems. We near the Coast and hunt and fish in the Bering Sea, our community is located on a Bay that has many River-ways and sloughs. The problem is that most areas are extremely shallow and have water weeds and grass.

We need an all around type of boat here and most people go with the 18' Aluminum Boats with V bottoms and 40 or 50 HP outboards, this is mainly for quick hunting trips and hunting in the Winter. I have a 14' Lund with a 30 HP, which so far has suited my needs.

Most people also own a bigger boat, like a 24' with a larger outboard or two medium size ones. This is because we try to make the boats as economical as we can, Gas is too expensive. I would love two 350 strapped to my boat, but I would also hate having to go through or getting stuck in the shallows with them too.

The boat in your pic is beautiful, looks like some of the boats they run on the bigger River systems here, like the Kuskokwim and the Yukon.

Nice boat.

Like JC said we use them for everything and everywhere.
Lots of Lunds running around everywhere with a few Hewescrafts and woolridges.
99% of the boats are outboards duo to the price of an inboard.

Between dad and i we have.
2 18ft lunds bought both used and run 40hp 4-stroke and a 2-stoke.
A 18ft hewescraft utility with a 85hp 2-stroke also bought used.
A 22ft PacificSkiff with a 140hp 4-stroke Suzk that replaced a 2-stoke FI 150.

Have had over 6,000lbs in the 22ft skiff when we were coming back from moose hunting.
Was able to get it on step.

All the boats have been in skinny water with good sucess.

I take a rear helm/steered boat over a front anytime.
Get beat to much with them on the river.

You learn to fix anything when you live in a rural area.

A sportjet would be nice but the $45,000 landed here is nuts.

Shallow stuff is where the boat in that pic shines. Go with the shorter versions, or tiller steering, and you decrease the weight even more and really go skinny. The Willie Predators run crazy-shallow stuff, but still have the V-bow to cut through the water instead of a traditional flat bottom flat nose sled. Most guys run 'em with outboard jets in the 150-200hp range, the jet on an outboard takes away 25-30% of the total power, so a 200hp jet is really more like 150hp at the nozzle, but that'll get up and scoot plenty. I've been on boats like that that you can almost look over the gunnel and wonder where the water is.

I'm guessing that you gents in the rural parts of AK use your boats like a lot of guys down in the lower 48 use a pickup truck?

Yep use them for everything.

We chew props mostly up here in the shallows.

we use our boats down here for work too, load the boat to go to the camp... hunt from the boat almost as much as we fish from it.......our boats get ran hard....

up north there do you all have any air-boats?? saw a video that they were being used as a ice rescue boat up north because it uses the fan instead of a prop and skims across the ice and when the ice turns to water it floats across it no problem... might be an idea

There are some out here in the bush.
Way to noisy for hunting.
We get spruce,cotton and birch trees leaning over the rivers that make it fun.

They do all right but have trouble here on the Kusko when the wind and chop is up.

Just can't throw a bunch of wood in and get going as easy as it is with a lund or other boats.

I hear ya on the noise part lol...and loading them up......ibet one of our laffite skiffs would work great for you all

yar, chewing up a sucks. $100+ fix every time, if all you do is bust an ear off. Bend the prop's shaft and

I'm surprised that pumps aren't more popular, what with the shallow waters, even if they are a bit more expensive.

Chew them down to nubs.
Never bent a shaft yet.
People have craked gear cases though.

Most of the time we have a load and are trying to get up to camping or hunting ground.
Other times we go with just gas.

Jets take to much power away from the smaller outboards to be able to use them with heavy loads.
Plus the can run $1,000 or so.
Thats a lot of aluminum props.

Plus coming down with the current is fun wih jets.

Hope the price of boats and motors come down. Even in the lower 48 the prices have gotten real stupid over the last 8 years or so...

Used to own a 1997 21 foot river runner made by Hewe's. Not quit as nice cosmetically as the Willie Predator but she was one heck of a boat.

The XR175 Sportjet (200 HP Merc out board head mounted as an inboard jet)would get up to speeds of 58 mph. Were as my friends V8's would be around 48 mph. I couldn't get up on plane as fast as my friends carrying heavy loads but over all a great boat for the money. on plane you only needed 2 1/2 inches of water to get over a gravel bar. It was also much better on fuel. I could drop her in on the Deschutes and run a couple of days longer before fueling up. She also ran great out in the ocean and the bays.

I thought boats were just big holes in the water to dump money ? Glad I'm only addicted to shooting, I just buy the tickets on the bigger boats, no time to own one I suppose, it's all good. Here is the site I use out here, ck it out if you like.

http://www.bloodydecks.com/

Bloodydecks to all !

This post has been edited by bigjoeguns: November 12th 2009 6:08 AM