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Masterkey setup, AR-15 w/underslung 870
post May 22nd 2009 6:01 AM
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Ok.. so i have this hairbrained scheme, and it'll work.. I can make it fit, a 18" barrel Rem 870 (has an 8 inch reciever) making it 26" overall and attach the rails to a quad rail.. should mate up nicely to a 20 inch, or a little short on an 18 inch AR.. .

My question is.. legality issues anyone? I don't know and i hate reading ATF legalese.


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post May 22nd 2009 6:10 AM
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no legal issues, it has been done. Neat idea but probably not the most practical tool.


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post May 22nd 2009 6:12 AM
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What if you got a Serbu super shorty 870, Its classified as AOW. Would the legal issue change if its mounted to another weapon?


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post May 22nd 2009 6:15 AM
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QUOTE (MontanaLon @ May 21st 2009 11:10 PM) *
no legal issues, it has been done. Neat idea but probably not the most practical tool.



Sweetness, yes not a practical tool at all, but it is hairbrained, it is a scheme, and very Tacti-cool. Just something that needs to be in the safe should the zombies or commies attack.
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post May 22nd 2009 6:18 AM
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QUOTE (Watson @ May 22nd 2009 1:12 AM) *
What if you got a Serbu super shorty 870, Its classified as AOW. Would the legal issue change if its mounted to another weapon?

you mean something like this?
http://tntarmoury.homestead.com/tnt1.html
Shotgun barrel less than 18" is AOW and would require the tax regardless of what it is hooked to.
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post May 22nd 2009 6:21 AM
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Or he can just use a few rubberbands.

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post May 22nd 2009 6:28 AM
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QUOTE (MontanaLon @ May 21st 2009 10:18 PM) *
you mean something like this?
http://tntarmoury.homestead.com/tnt1.html
Shotgun barrel less than 18" is AOW and would require the tax regardless of what it is hooked to.


Serbu has a 6 1/2 barrel, They really mean super short. 5$ tax stamp for AOW right?
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post May 22nd 2009 11:08 AM
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QUOTE (yakimagunsmith @ May 21st 2009 11:01 PM) *
Ok.. so i have this hairbrained scheme, and it'll work.. I can make it fit, a 18" barrel Rem 870 (has an 8 inch reciever) making it 26" overall and attach the rails to a quad rail.. should mate up nicely to a 20 inch, or a little short on an 18 inch AR.. .

My question is.. legality issues anyone? I don't know and i hate reading ATF legalese.


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post May 22nd 2009 11:18 AM
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From what I understand the way they get around the short barrel shotgun is because they buy a model from Remmy or mossberg that only comes with a pistol grip. Just like an AR pistol there would be no restrictions on how long the barrel has to be. When you mount it to a AR rifle then it has a shoulder stock and would fall under the SBS definitions.


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post May 22nd 2009 6:03 PM
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QUOTE (redbarron06 @ May 22nd 2009 6:18 AM) *
From what I understand the way they get around the short barrel shotgun is because they buy a model from Remmy or mossberg that only comes with a pistol grip. Just like an AR pistol there would be no restrictions on how long the barrel has to be. When you mount it to a AR rifle then it has a shoulder stock and would fall under the SBS definitions.

I beleive there is no such thing as a shotgun "pistol" A shotgun has to have an 18 in barrel, unlesss the barrel is rifled, then it can be 16 inches.


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post May 22nd 2009 6:10 PM
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QUOTE (AnonymousD @ May 22nd 2009 1:03 PM) *
I beleive there is no such thing as a shotgun "pistol" A shotgun has to have an 18 in barrel, unlesss the barrel is rifled, then it can be 16 inches.

I did not say it came as a pistol but with a pistol grip. If it had come from the factory with a shoulder stock it would be considered a short barrelled shaotgun. Because it came with a pistol grip they are able to shorten the barrel without it being called a shotgun but being called AOW (any other weapon) When you put a shoulder stock on it I belive it becomes a short barrelled shot gun again requiring the SBS stamp rather than a AOW.
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post May 22nd 2009 6:19 PM
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I would want a direct letter or email from the ATF.



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post May 22nd 2009 6:19 PM
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I have always been under the impression that pistol grip shottys still have to have an 18 in barrel. Even if they came from the mfr like that.
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post May 22nd 2009 7:21 PM
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QUOTE (AnonymousD @ May 22nd 2009 1:19 PM) *
I have always been under the impression that pistol grip shottys still have to have an 18 in barrel. Even if they came from the mfr like that.

Just going off what they say on the Shorty web site. There is something about the pistol grip that keeps it from being classified as a standard shotgun.

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php
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post May 22nd 2009 7:30 PM
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The vertical grip definitely makes it an AOW. I'm fairly certain that any shotgun with a barrel of less than 18 inches is considered an AOW or SBS.


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post May 22nd 2009 7:35 PM
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Didnt know you were talking about the Super Shorty. I think its the VFG that makes it an AOW.
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post May 22nd 2009 8:15 PM
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QUOTE (AnonymousD @ May 22nd 2009 2:35 PM) *
Didnt know you were talking about the Super Shorty. I think its the VFG that makes it an AOW.

It could be but I was thinking about the pistol grip because the mentioned that speficly. That may be how they trun in into a pistol then it is a AOW because of the VFG.
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post May 23rd 2009 4:10 PM
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Only thing about that is Im pretty sure a shotgun CANNOT be clasified as a pistol. Its either a SBS or AOW.
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post May 23rd 2009 4:30 PM
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I could not find anything in the NFA with a simple word search about a pistol with a forward grip but I was able to find this which is why I believe that it is not condisered a short barreled shot gun.

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(d) Shotgun. -- The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.


I guess that is why you can use a gun that came from the factory with a pistol grip and shorten the length of the barrel and not need the $200 SBS stamp.

Now as far as AOW I think this covers it but not sure.

QUOTE
(e) Any other weapon. -- The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.


QUOTE (AnonymousD @ May 23rd 2009 11:10 AM) *
Only thing about that is Im pretty sure a shotgun CANNOT be clasified as a pistol. Its either a SBS or AOW.
I guess that would be right but to be classified as a shotgun it must have a shoulder stock.


This post has been edited by redbarron06: May 23rd 2009 4:32 PM
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post May 24th 2009 3:43 PM
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QUOTE (AnonymousD @ May 23rd 2009 11:10 AM) *
Only thing about that is Im pretty sure a shotgun CANNOT be clasified as a pistol. Its either a SBS or AOW.

what about the new Taurus Judge?

or adding shotshells to any other handgun...

This post has been edited by Energizer: May 24th 2009 3:44 PM
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