Greetings all!

I’m getting ready to build a new shorty AR to compliment my old pre-ban Bushmaster XM15E2 (best $650 I ever spent back in ’92!). Why? Why not, I say!

Anyway, I’m already planning on going down to San Diego to get a Calguns.net OLL lower from JD Tech (formerly Kaiser Defense). My questions relate to the upper and accessories…

I’m leaning towards getting a 14.5” M4 barrel with a 1:9 twist and a Vortex permanently attached to make it legal. First of all, does this sound like a decent barrel arrangement? I doubt I’ll ever shoot those long-range tracer rounds out of it, so I see no need for 1:7. Most of the rounds I dump downrange will be something along the order of 55 grain M193-type. However, I may occasionally want to use 62 grain M855-type ammo, so I think this barrel twist is a good compromise.

I want to make this a flattop with a flip-up rear sight and some sort of optics. I may get a detachable carrying handle, since the optics I want aren’t exactly cheap and it may take a while to raise the extra coin.

But anyway, what is the consensus on flip-up front sights? Are they needed, or are most optics high enough that it doesn’t matter? I’m leaning towards some variety of ACOG sight, if that makes any kind of difference.

Finally, does anyone know of a place to get an upper with this kind of barrel arrangement? I like Bushmaster, but their catalog doesn’t seem to include anything like what I want, and I don’t know if they’d ship a 14.5" barrel to the People’s Republic of California anyway... and they certainly don’t carry the Vortex, since they make a competing flash suppressor...

Also, are uppers basically interchangeable? Due to furlough hours at work and the elimination of cash overtime, this will definitely be a many-months long project, and once I get the lower ready I might want to attach my existing rifle’s upper to it to try it out. Hmmm... guess I’d have to install a Bullet Button before I did so, though, and only use ten-round mags... bah…

Thanks!

uppers are definitely interchangable.

I would personally just set it up to go on your preban lower. I would check with Addax Tactical. They are a great site sponsor and they are in your area. They can fix an upper to your specs.



TS



to the Armory!

Thanks for the welcomes, guys!



Yeah, but if I use my existing lower, then I'd still only have one rifle. Well, one AR-type rifle, at any rate... what am I to do if a friend is over when TEOTWAWKI hits/Secret Soviet Sleeper Troops invade/the zombies rise/the Dodgers win the World Series/insert scenario here?

I would work on the upper first and put it on the preban lower. I would do the bullet button lower after you are "done" with the new upper. Then you can give your friend the A2 Bushy on the bullet button lower....



TS

Something to think on...

But, I want to get an OLL (or two... or three...) before some idiot in Sacramento decides that that hole in the legislation needs to be closed in order to keep us safe from gangbangers building their own rifles. Ya know, I heard that it's the Weapon of Choice ™ of the violent criminal underworld!

Anyway, in a TEOTWAWKI situation, I wouldn't be surprised if that Bullet Button somehow gets replaced with a regular magazine release that might be lying around in a spare parts bag... or at the very least, a Bullet Button Wrench might somehow get screwed on. Hell, in all the confusion, some of the old thirty-round magazines that litter this place might even be mistaken for ten rounders...

I would build off the pre-ban and since you are in LA I would go to Addax as well for the uppers.

Rear BUIS I like the ARMS 40L

I was leaning towards the GG&G one, but at this stage everything is negotiable... is there a whole lot of difference between the various makes and manufacturers?

Technically the Cal DOJ lost its chance to update the AW list with the OLL's, so you will be fine. If our Stupid State Legislator tries to impose a new AW Ban including the OLL's, I believe it will be deemed as unconstitutional (especially after the Heller Decision)... Not saying that they will not try something stupid, but they will run into a huge wall of resistance here with many of the pro 2nd ammendment groups, pro firearms orgainizations, the NRA, and many of us legit. firearms owners in California.

In a TEOTWAWKI situation, you can simply install the Bullet Button Wrench, which will allow you to use it as a normal magazine release.

This wrench is also good when you go shooting in a free state like Nevada...

Visit My Website

Yeah, there will be Bullet Button Wrenches readily accessible if they are ever needed...

I hope you're right about them not being able to make it worse. We shall see... I still need to figure out exactly what the deal with be with ammunition now...

Someone mentioned that what is apparently your company might be able to help me with the upper, with a barrel like I mentioned?

Shoot them an email at sales@adxtactical.com.



TS

Well, before I think about actually placing orders I'll need to figure out exactly what kind of configuration I want.

Which goes back to the question about barrels. If I go with a 14.5" barrel with a Vortex permanently mounted to make it legal, am I giving up a lot over a 16"? I've encountered folks who claim the difference is negligible, and folks who say it's nigh-useless with the shorter barrel.

Also, folding front sights... that's a big one, whatever barrel I go with will have that huge sight post. Does the regular sight get in the way of mounted optics? At first, I may use a removable carrying handle until I can raise the money, but the primary configuration of this, once it's done, will be with optics, so the iron sights will just be backups.

Any thoughts?

I wasn't trying to rush you into a buy. Talking with Chris @ Addax could help with your options.



You lose 68 fps at the muzzle with M193 spec ammo and 82 fps with M855 spec ammo. If you are using FMJ ammo, you will lose a little distance to where it will fragment. 77gr MK 262 will fragment further distances than either M193 or M855. You also have the ability to use soft point and ballistic tip ammo which is less reliant on velocity to wound and kill. If you use your preban lower for this upper the Vortex is fine. Newer lower, I'm not sure of the law.



The front sight will get in the way of some EOtechs but if you shoot with both eyes open the front sight base will "disappear". Other EOtechs will allow you to look over the front sight base.



TS

So I went over to Addax Tactical the other day and talked to Chris. Great guy and a nice shop! Plus, he's cognizant of the zombie menace and is getting ready to release a "zombie killer" upper... think I'll be buying mine there, although he doesn't touch lowers yet... wish him luck getting approval to proceed in the city of Los Angeles!

Anyway, think I'll go with the 16" barrel. He's done a good job of convincing me to go with a 1:7 twist instead of 1:9...

I have to admit that I'm not married to 1:9, but it is what I got on my pre-ban rifle, back in '92. The reasoning was that supposedly 1:7 isn't the greatest for 55gr (ie., M193) ammo, but that 1:9 works well with both 55gr and 62gr loadings...

Now, the bulk of my stockpile is Federal XM193 hardball, so obviously I want my new weapon system(s) to work well with it. But I do have some heavier stuff squirreled away, too...

Googling the topic of 1:7 v. 1:9 turns up a whole mess of pages, most of which have nothing to do with barrel twist... does anyone know of any sites that attempt to make sense of the situation?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by Akin: November 9th 2009 8:04 PM

To tell you the truth about the twist, it's just has to do with the weight of the bullet. If you decide on one weight at or over 55grs, then the 1/7 will be great! It's only when you go lighter than 55grs, you'll need a 1/9 or lower twist. I bought a 1/8 SS barrel that will shoot a shat load of weights & it's also a 5.56, so I can shoot ether .223 or 5.56. Do yourself a favor & get a barrel that shots 5.56 so you can shoot both! BTW


Jimbo

This post has been edited by superstratjunky: November 9th 2009 9:25 PM

Do they even make AR barrels that aren't chambered for 5.56? Mine will be, of course...

I can't imagine ever shooting anything lighter than 55gr, and 62gr won't often be used, so whatever I wind up with definitely needs to be good for both but mainly with 55gr.

Actually, that's a slightly related question. Last time I investigated the situation, M193 was still the "general purpose" ammo of choice for ARs, and SS109 was basically only really needed when engaging, say, zombies that still had helmets strapped on their rotten heads. Has this kind of thinking changed much?

DPMS bull barrels have .223 Remington chambers. Some Olympics are marked .223 but they are supposed to be .223 Wylde which will handle 5.56 ammo.



55gr ammo is still the most used ammo made for .223/5.56mm. I don't recommend SS109/M855 even with zombies wearing helmets. SS109 is a poor anti-zombie round, just ask guys who have used it against Islamic zombies where the sand is. However, this is just my opinion based on things I've heard and read. I would get a few other opinions.


TS

Well, I'll definitely make sure my new barrel is rated for 5.56.

I've talked with a vet or two who traipsed about Mogadishu back in the day, and they've indicated that no one was terribly impressed with the performance of SS109 ammo against the locals... I take it the stuff hasn't gotten any better? Supposedly it was all right when shooting at bandits who were behind something...

This post has been edited by Akin: November 10th 2009 10:22 PM

It (SS109/M855) will pierce thin metal such as a car door, etc. The steel or tungsten core is what makes it a poor anti-zombie round. It tends to poke holes instead of fragment. M193 will fragment more reliably. The thing is we aren't limited to FMJ and fragmentation like the military. 55gr soft point, various ballistic tips, 64gr soft points and others.



TS

Thanks, lots of good info 4 sure.....