So, the water needs to be either cycled, or jostled around periodically? Would storing the 55 gallon drums on their sides, and rolling them around the garage monthly work? Or does it need to be more activity, and more frequent?

Sorry Pepper my bad. I'm a little off on waterbed storage which has it's own set of problems. With basically a 200 gallon container that the water won't be changed out for years if ever, it's good to regasify the water periodically for the chlorine to get back in the water and redissolve the oxygen.

Most people I know that use 55 gallon drums don't bother with this at all but simply rotate the water out about once every two to three years.

The basic principle is once you kill the life unless you open the container it won't come back. On the otherhand, regardless what method you use to shock the water, some bacteria will survive in very small numbers. Of special concern here is anerobic bacteria that can live without the precense of oxygen. They're tough little bugs that are hard to kill, hard to test for, and water overtime has a tendency to degasify on it's own reducing the desolved oxygen levels. Jossling serves two purposes, it increases the desolved oxygen as well as gets the chlorine back in the water. This is really only a concern for water stored for years. This concern is also why many treat the city water as if it was raw water with chemicals. The potential for anerobic bacteria is heavily influenced by the quality of your starting water for like all bacteria it needs dissolved organics in the water to live. This risk greatly decreases if your city water is ran through an activated charcoal filter and this varies city to city. In fact, the entire treatment varies from city to city. I started my career in the industry so tend to keep track of that where I live. Good news here is recent studies have shown city water nationally to be as good as bottled water if not better.

There's a product out there, I have no personal experience with it, called Water Perserver which costs around $10 per 55 gallon drum which is basically ph stablized (additives) sodium hypoclorate (bleach) that claims five years storage. Though I haven't used it a number of guys I know swear by it.

If your water is contaiminated by anerobic bacteria, you will know if for it will smell like hell.

It's kind of hard to make a recommendation without knowing your starting water quality but in general if you are using 55 gallon drums and 10-12 drops of non-stabilized sodium hypochlorate, you won't have to touch the drum for 2-3 years. Lower the sodium hypochlorate level and the need to regasify becomes more frequent.

Tj

A little off but still on topic :

I use to have a farm that had a 300 Rubbermaid water tank / tub for live stock.

When at the tank in the summer I would use it to rinse the sweat and grime off. Thing was that leaves and bugs kept falling in, sometimes even a small rodent.

I'd throw a large pool chlorine tab in it and the water never went bad, although it had a bunch of sediment at the bottom, as long as it wasn't stirred up it was clean enough to wash and rinse with, while out at the back forty.

I never drank from it, but in a dire emergency I had no doubt it would have been ok to drink .


It also killed the mosquito's

This post has been edited by barnacle: November 19th 2005 1:50 PM

Here is an article from Backwoods Home magazine addressing this topic (btw: I have email 'OK" from their editor to post articles from them on the web). They put out a pretty good book and have a website full of info if ya'll are interested. I just renewed my subscription a week or so ago and signed up my parents as well for Christmas - we are both getting a "Survival Guide" Book/CD as well for a signing gift.

________________________________________________________________

January/February 1999 Backwoods Home Magazine
By Vicki Tate

SELF-RELIANCE:

WATER for an emergency storing

Any of us who’ve thought much about emergency preparedness realize that one of the most critical items to store is water. Without sufficient water to see you through an emergency that lasts more than a few days, you and your family are at great risk. You simply can’t live without water.

Fourteen gallons of water per person is the suggested amount to store for a two-week emergency situation. This amount is enough for subsistence purposes only: two quarts for drinking and two quarts for cleaning and bathing purposes a day. When you consider that a person normally uses in excess of 140 gallons of water per day for drinking, bathing, laundry, dishes, watering lawns, etc., this isn’t a lot of water. If you have the room to store more you will want to do so.

The easiest way to store the bulk of your water is in 55-gallon polyethylene (plastic) water drums. These can be obtained from most food storage companies or from local container companies found in the yellow pages. It is important that you use only food grade, good quality containers. Many times you can get food grade containers from companies that distribute beverages or syrups. If you clean them well, they can provide a good container that costs considerably less. One word of caution: often the taste or odor of the previous contents has leached into the plastic and over time may be reintroduced to your water. If you plan to use previously used containers, make sure that what it had in it before is something you wouldn’t mind tasting or smelling in your water.

Most water containers come in 5-gallon, 15-gallon, or 55-gallon sizes. I always suggest that a family stores
between two and six of these smaller containers, along with their 55-gallon drums. This is a prudent suggestion in situations where you might need to transport water in the normal course of events or in a situation where your normal water source might be disrupted, such as after an earthquake, hurricane,
etc., and you might have to go to a secondary water source such as a water truck, stream, etc. to refill.
Water weighs approximately 8 pounds per gallon, so 55-gallon drums are much too heavy to handle (440
pounds), plus they are awkward. Smaller containers don’t hold enough water and would require too many
trips, especially if you have to go to a source on foot. Five to fifteen-gallon containers are more practical and can easily be put into a wheelbarrow or child’s wagon and wheeled to and from an area. Two-liter pop bottles make a good container for additional water storage and cost nothing if you save them and fill them with water as you empty them. To economize many people are tempted to use empty milk jugs, but don’t plan to store water in these for more than three to four months. They are biodegradable and will break
down within six months. Not only may you lose your water, but if they are stored near food or other items
they may damage them. Heavy containers should always be stored close to ground level and secured to prevent breakage or possible injury in the event of earthquake, etc. Be sure to store your water away from any harmful chemicals or objectionable smelling products.

Culinary water (tap water) is what is usually stored for long term storage. If you have a clean, opaque container where the light cannot get through and your water is bacteria-free when you store it you probably don’t need to treat it further. Under these conditions the water actually gets more pure as it is stored. However, for most of us there is no guarantee that our culinary water is bacteria-free, so most of us
prefer to treat our water in some way as a precaution as we store it.

Several methods have traditionally been used to purify water for long term water storage.

2% Tincture of iodine—To use this add 12 drops per gallon of water. Note: pregnant or nursing women or people with thyroid problems should not drink water with iodine. Chlorine bleach—Household bleach can also be used. This should contain a 5.25% solution of sodium hypochlorite without soap additives or phosphates. Use 1/8 teaspoon (about 5-8 drops) per gallon of water. Most of us have used one of these
methods to treat our water over the years. Both are inexpensive and are effective methods of killing bacteria. I have always preferred the iodine method myself. The one drawback, however, is that both may have negative health effects if used for long periods of time. I was introduced to a product a couple
of years ago that I now prefer to use instead because it is an excellent water purifier, but it also has many
medicinal properties. It is a stabilized oxygen called Ion that is effective in killing all harmful bacteria without any of the harmful health effects associated with chlorine or iodine.

For long term storage add 20 drops of Ion per gallon of water. One bottle will purify two 55-gallon drums. It is also excellent for your emergency packs (72-hour kits). It is small and light weight (2.33 oz.) but extremely effective. Studies show that if water is bacteria-free and is stored in clean containers it will stay safe for several years. It is a good idea, however, to periodically check your water for purity and taste. And every few years it’s a good idea to change it. One of the things that affects the taste of water is it “going flat.” This occurs because of the oxidation that takes place as it sits. You can improve the taste by pouring
the water back and forth between containers to aerate it or by beating it with a hand egg beater. You also may want to store some flavorings such as fruit drink powders, kool-aid, etc. to add to your water if you find the taste objectionable. One of the other benefits of Ion is the o x y g e n remains suspended ,
maintaining its good taste for much longer periods of time. Remember also that you have several sources of water already in your home that can be tapped in an emergency, such as your hot water heater, toilet tanks (don’t use water from a tank that contains colored disinfectant, as it is poisonous.), water pipes, ice in
the freezer, etc.

Water is relatively inexpensive to store and certainly not difficult to do, but certainly the time to store it is
now. We take water for granted when things are normal, but in an emergency it becomes absolutely critical.
This is an item you can’t afford to overlook in your preparedness preparations.

January/February 1999 Backwoods Home Magazine

This post has been edited by Viking: November 19th 2005 4:15 PM

Good choice of articles buddy! That paticular article is one of the most visited on the web.

I especially like his reference to the Radio Flyer for since my son out grew his, it's become one of my favorite tools.

Tj

Thanks TJ,

That magazine is a good read for a variety of info. The "Emergency Preparedness and Survival Guide" came today and I am going to start looking over it tomorrow.

I think this thread deserves a tack. We tend to focus on the things that are so much more fun, like guns, firestarting, etc., and tend to forget that water is so critical.

Does anyone have a source for the Ion product?

Besides air, the most important thing to everyday survival is water.

I'd like to start with some basic terms.

Purification in the industry typically means killing microbial life such as parasites, bacteria, and virus.

Filtration in the industry typically means taking the chemical impuritites out. A tad confusing sometimes I know. Filtration as general term usually refers to suspended solids and not necessarily dissolved solids.

The first step to picking a water treatment system is knowing the water you intend to treat.

Here's a comprehensive web site regarding general water FAQs.

Water FAQ

In the field, we don't always have the luxury of having an available water analysis or department to perform those tests. This is problem since knowing the water you intend to treat is so important. There are some basic rules of thumb that are very helpful.

1. The first step in any decision on field treatment is knowing what is upstream of your water source. The way to do this is identify your potential water sources and then look at what is upstream. The method I prefer is a topographical map showing what is upstream.

Free Topos

Keep in mind, water movement through settling and aeriation is water treatment, however this usually takes miles not yards.

2. If the water is moving and clear, no smell, no rotting vegitation or animal caracasses, and no houses or farm fields upstream, typically all that is required is a filter and no secondary chemical treatment. In this case, about any filter on the market will work. In fact if the water is cold and bubbling, you stand a very good chance you don't even have to filter, nice to know but not recommended.

3. There are three things one should be concerned about in water quality, microbial infestation, suspended solids, and dissolved solids. Microbial infestation is parasites (easiest to filter), bacteria (harder), and virus (hardest). Suspended solids are sand, dirt, chemicals, and biological waste. A decent filter with pre-f**** (screen) will take most suspended solids out. Dissolved solids can be anything that dissolves in water and that is anything from salt to chemicals. Of special concern is water with waste treatment plants upstream, septic systems, and farm fields that may have pesticide or fertilizer run off. The usual field method for treatment is adding activated charcoal to a filtration system.

This is another of my favorite water FAQs. The site is a little cutesy but some excellent information. Check his links. This site will keep you busy.

Water Filter Dude

4. When in doubt boil. Although boiling doesn't remove suspended solids or dissolved solids it does kill microbial life and will evaporate non-dissolved petrochemicals with a lower boiling point than water. The usual accepted timing is 1 minute (roaring boil) for every 1,000 ft of elevation.

5. Chemical treatment is a good way to kill microbial life on the move, however has some draw backs over prolonged time periods. Waterdude does a fair job on his website but falls short on many of the newer methods such as Miox.

One of my favorite sites for general filter, purifier, and chemical treatment methods is Campmor. They tend to be very conservative in their ratings.

Campmor water gear

There are many more filtration systems on the market than Campmor carries but they do cover the different types very well and if you browse the specifications, you can get a good idea of what is available allowing you to make your decisions better.

I hope you find this information useful.

Tj

About thread author: 92B40 in the service with emphasis on Microbiology and field techniques, Minor in Microbiology, and five years in water treatment system design both influent and effluent.

Every time I think of this I think of that nice flock of geese up river that just all emptied there bowels. Makes me thirsty!

This post has been edited by OD45: December 10th 2005 7:58 PM

They say that's an aphrodiasiac bud.

Nice post by the way. It is suprising to me how many people really don't think about water. Even when at home most people are very poorly hydrated!

This post has been edited by OD45: December 11th 2005 2:28 AM

TJ, excellent post.

Reminds me of an old Bill Mauldin cartoon: bunch of GIs drinking from a creek when another one pops up upstream holding his wet socks and asks, "anybody got some more soap?"

Is there a website that has all of his cartoons? His work is so good! Is he alive?

I've not seen a website. I've got an old book called "Bill Mauldin's Army" that was published around 1950.

Yep, it surprises me how many people can't tell the early signs of dehydration even. The number one indicator I use is urine output. Less and darker color, I increase my intake. Thirst and sweat sometimes simply aren't indicators especially in high altiudes or dry desert where the air evaporates sweat before you feel the wet. In those conditiions my rule of thumb is if you are thirsty, it's too late.

On the topic of upstream, I think the one media event that brought that home to me was as kid watching the Jimmy Stewart movie "How the West was won". A tad hokie movie but I'll forget the George Peppard scene at Shiloh during the civil war when he drank the water, then spit it out cause it tasted funny to only find it had been running red with blood that day. It had a hell of an effect on me as a young man and in the height to my longrange hiking days which btw was pre-filter days. We didn't have filters so knowing what was upstream was really important.

When you think about it's only 3 days without water before you're in a world of hurt, it is quite amazing people don't keep it around. During the aftermatch of a hurricane I was in, the people walking for miles with gallon jugs in their hands really drove the point home.

Tj

Thanks TJ!

One day I want to buy you dinner.

I learn SOOOOOOOOOO much from you.

Sgatr15

I believe this is mainly because that is the color of most mens pee most of the time.


Most people, I know I did, drink things like coffee and soda instead of water.

Sgatr15

New 55 gallon barrels, 5 year oxy stabilizer

katadyn filter for backup


29,000 pool for non-potable water

I'd say you had it about covered...but only if you can keep fallout out of the pool. Maybe convert to a covered/indoor pool?

J/K - nice set up.

Good topic, good article, good info. Never thought about a water bed.