My Razorback is whispering to me...."Tell him Dan Wesson!"

Wilson is a VERY bad example since having owned one and worked in a shop seeing them all day they are over priced junk. C&S? Maybe a little marketing on there part and I have a Browning HP with 3 grand worth of their work done to it.

Again can ANYONE here show me a MIM part that broke on their gun. PLEASE show me a broken part? Ruger makes more MIM parts for military aircraft manufacturers then they do guns. Major pieces of F-18's and F-22's use them.

Again can you show me a broken MIM part from your gun? Just one pic? A broken part not an armchair opinion is what I am seeking.

As an engineer I like to see facts and things that can be measured, quantified and assessed.

Has no one mentioned that the DW is in the design of the series 70 while the Kimber has the firing pin safety thing?

Actually the Kimber does not use the Colt style of firing pin safety. Kimbers block is de-activated by the grip safety. This also means that there is absolutely no difference with the trigger mechanisms, pull or feel of a DW and Kimber.



Here is a cutaway drawing of the Kimber style

this is what the de-activating rod looks like in the frame.






As you can see there is NO Colt style lever being pushed on be the trigger bow like in the series 80 Colt and therefor in the Kimber it has no affect on the trigger.

my 2 cents...

MIM is incredibly hard to maintain tolerances even beyond polymers, yet a very durable product.

I have a DW Valor on order. Forged frame and slide, all Ed Brown internals, Grieder trigger and slide stop. Match barrel and bushing, hand fit frame and slide. Adjustable Novak Tritum rear sight. Novak Tirtium front sight. I expect it will perform near equal to my Les Baer/John Harrison custom. For $2000 less.

Swartz saftey. He is the guy who invented it.

I had a pair of Kimber Stainless Target II's. One I shot the other was left in the safe. I really figured they'd be a limited time run. Later, I started buying other 1911's and started seeing the beauty in them. In the end, I found that my pair of Springfield Omega Match's and all 4 of my DW's would EASILY outshoot my Colts, even the Gold Cup's. I didn't have a lot of trouble with my Kimber, and most of it was their cheap @$$ mags, but they didn't feel as tight nor shoot as accurate as my SA or DW's did. The most accurate of my DW's are my pair of the original 150 Razorback's. My SA Linkless and Omega (non-match) are accurate enough, but can't keep up with the others.
End result, I now have NO Kimbers, a pair of Colts which I never shoot, and I am buying up all the old Razorback's and Omega Match's that I can find & afford. My next two 1911's are going to be a Fusion Custom and Para-Ordance P16-40 converted to 10mm.

If you are ever in the Oklahoma City area, I'd be glad to take you to the range with some of my 1911's to see which you prefer.

I had a pair of Kimber Stainless Target II's. One I shot the other was left in the safe. I really figured they'd be a limited time run. Later, I started buying other 1911's and started seeing the beauty in them. In the end, I found that my pair of Springfield Omega Match's and all 4 of my DW's would EASILY outshoot my Colts, even the Gold Cup's. I didn't have a lot of trouble with my Kimber, and most of it was their cheap @$$ mags, but they didn't feel as tight nor shoot as accurate as my SA or DW's did. The most accurate of my DW's are my pair of the original 150 Razorback's. My SA Linkless and Omega (non-match) are accurate enough, but can't keep up with the others.
End result, I now have NO Kimbers, a pair of Colts which I never shoot, and I am buying up all the old Razorback's and Omega Match's that I can find & afford. My next two 1911's are going to be a Fusion Custom and Para-Ordance P16-40 converted to 10mm.



That tells the story, doesn't it?

Scott

I used to own a Kimber STII in 10mm and really liked the gun.... solid, accurate and reliable. That being said, I currently own a DW/CZ Razorback in 10mm and it's my favorite handgun, no question. A step up from the Kimber, no question. I even got my first handgun deer with it this past season.

DW gets my vote.

Excuse me but isn't that like saying I owned a new Caddy last year but got rid of it for a Chevy instead!!! This much I know for a fact gentlemen and ladies if your reading along, I have owned 3 Kimber 1911 models starting back in the year 2000 and I have seen NO factory 1911 other than another Kimber out shoot my guns at the range period. Now 2 of my Kimbers came with ceritified targets back then at 15 yards and shots on target were all touching or cloverleafed.

I am thinking of getting another 10mm caliber pistol and looking real hard at those Kimbers and rest assured, I will try out those Dan Wesson (CZ) models real soon also. Perhaps COLT will bring out their Delta Elite, if they haven't done so already. So I suppose time will tell for me on which brand is the better of the two, I'll be going to the range next week to find out folks.

My Baer is guaranteed to shoot 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. Like to see a Kimber do that. I will bet the DW Valor I have on the way will be a tack driver as well.

From what I understand about the 2009 Colt's Delta Elite, you're not missing much! Rough internally (scratches and is less than "polished") as well as a bit rough externally, the Colt just isn't worthy of the name anymore.

Why would you buy a handgun into which you'll wind up investing another $400.00 - $600.00 to reach the "base" quality level of a Dan Wesson Razorback for about $200.00 more than you paid for the Colt? It just doesn't add up!

I guess that some people simply MUST have the "prancing pony" on the slide and grips, or it isn't a 'real' 1911-pattern pistol. This is utter nonsense! I think that anyone that does this is deluding themselvses.

I can hear the new Colt DE owner now... "Its a Colt... it may be rough, group like a shotgun and have feeding problems, but ITS A COLT"! Who cares?

Try them all, and buy what you want, but remember... Real men think for themselves!

Scott

This post has been edited by gunfan: July 31st 2009 5:54 AM

Please don't try to equate the Kimber/DW relationship like Cadillac/Chevrolet. While I don't bash Kimbers, 99% of their guns are nowhere close to a Dan Wesson in terms of fit, trigger, and accuracy. My DW came with a test target as well, IIRC it was 25 yards, and it was a cloverleaf. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Kimber, but please don't try to make that comparison.

Kimber or DW in 10mm? Tough call, but I'd be tempted to go DW since it does not have a firing pin safety. Kimbers are nice and the Kimber 10mm utilizes a ramped barrel, but a standard barrel in 10mm provides more than adequate case web support if it's set up correctly. DW does use a lot of Ed Brown parts, I like Ed Brown's components just fine.

In case you forgot, Kimber started life as a inexpensive alternative to real custom 1911's. It was the Taurus PT1911 of it's day. Offering custom features for bargain prices. Nothing has changed but Swartz safety and the price.

Nope, its not like your analogy at all. I've been shooting 1911's and 10mm's long enough to know the differences in quality between 1911's. The Dan Wesson Razorback is simply a nicer, more well built 1911. Period. My experience, was, in fact, good with my Kimber but I don't have a handgun that will outshoot my DW and many have had the same experiences.

I suggest you look really hard at DW for your next 10mm 1911.... and, unless you are a collector, probably shouldn't worry about the new Delta's as either Kimber OR DW would get you more bang from your buck.

Let us how how your range trip goes.

are there any quality issues or concerns over dan wesson being cz now?

i do love cz pistols, but i dont want a cz if im buying a dan wesson.

From what I hear the quality is the same or better. Theyve got better financial backing and resources, etc.