He doesn't know it, but my dad is getting an original Trapdoor Springfield for Christmas. With the rush on ammo, 45-70 is pretty lean right now. I found some Remington stuff loaded with a 405gr (!) JSP that is stamped "safe for all rifles." I assume this stuff is good to go? If not, I can yank the bullets and download it, but I don't want to fool with it if I don't have to. On the other hand, I'd rather not shoot something too hot and blow up a nice old rifle and/or kill us both.

ETA: I read on trapdoorcollector.com that jacketed bullets will wear the barrel faster. No more than this thing will get shot I doubt it will have any noticeable effect, but once this initial box is gone we will go to cast lead, just to be sure.

This post has been edited by Indian4: November 23rd 2008 5:47 PM

I have a original Trapdoor rifle that I reload for and have shot a fair amount. Mine has been fed only with 20:1 cast lead bullets and black powder. I know guys that have shot factory smokeless ammo with no problem, but the idea always made me a little nervous. Trapdoors are not the strongest actions and the steel back then wasn't a whole lot stronger than plain iron. Metallurgy for firearms was still in it's infantsy. According to trapdoorcollector.com if your Remington ammo pressure is under 20,000 CUP you should be OK. There is Cowboy Action rated 45-70 available from Ten X Ammo or Goex/Blackdawg Cartridge that is loaded with black powder or a black powder substitute and cast bullets. I believe Cabelas sells Ten X ammo, but it's not cheap. But it would still be cheaper than damaging your Dad's Trapdoor or worse.

If you reload, rolling your own BPCR (Black powder cartridge rifle) rounds can be fun. The accuracy that can be had with black powder is amazing, but it can get technical to the point of be somewhere between fine science and black magic. I currently reload for several old big bore calibers like 38-55, 40-60, 40-65, 43 Spanish, 45-70, and 45-90.

Good luck with the Trapdoor. I'm sure your Father will be delighted with his Christmas present and being able to shoot a piece of history.

This post has been edited by Smokin' Iron: December 2nd 2008 10:37 PM

Thanks. I'm digging around trying to see what the pressure for the Remington loads are.

I found that for the 405 gr SP load the velocity is 1330 fps and 1590 ft-lbs at the end of a 24" test barrel. I don't know if I can calculate pressure from that or not.

I have a trapdoor, and I've fired that load through mine. It was safe, IN MY RIFLE. IMHO, that load is safe in any trapdoor that's in good condition. I won't shoot a bunch of it, I ran one box through it, and then ran some PMC cowboy action loads through it. I'm going to get another box of the Remington just to have around, but I'll stick to black powder equivalent lead projectile rounds for any shooting.

That's good to hear Pepper. I wasn't looking forward to trying to download that stuff without being discovered (the reloading equipment is at my parents' house). This one is in really good shape aside from some WECSOG external moddings, I don't have any reservations about it being safe to shoot. We'll run that box through it to get a feel for it and empty the brass and then start loading cast lead and goex or a light load of smokeless + wadding.

I'd be safe: shoot BP only in the trapdoor. They're not making them anymore.

I'll have to research how to do it. I've never put black powder in a brass case before. I'll have the rifle checked out by somebody that knows them better than me just to make sure it's good to go. If I end up pulling the Remington bullets I guess I could just dump the powder into my 'miscellaneous' powder can.

Dad was griping the other day that he wasn't getting anything for Christmas this year. This is going to be good.

Just a follow up to this thread...

We took the old springer out today. I did some research, and the Remington 405s are about 1300 fps, some of our manuals listed trapdoor-specific 45-70 loads for 405s with velocities as high as 1500 fps, so I didn't think pressure would be a problem as long as the rifle is in good shape. The rifle didn't have any problems with it. From a shooting standpoint, the recoil was very light

The rifle itself is a sweet shooter, I didn't have any trouble ringing the 200 yard gong once I got my trajectory figured out. Not bad for 130+ year old iron. I would've never dreamed a single shot could be so much fun.

That sounds like a really good time, I bet your dad had a blast too. If you want to get into loading black powder Buffalo Arms is a good place to start. Be careful though shooting these old soot burners can get very addicting, kind of like BRD.

good deal. i'm glad ya'll didn't blow yer asses off with a hot load.